
The Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota: Last Week’s SNAP Revelation About Yet Another Diocesan Leader
The Duluth News Tribune last Tuesday released another story about SNAP’s efforts in the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota. SNAP, in case you have forgotten, is the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, and played a rather central role in exposing and publicizing the coverup of the U.S. portion of the Roman Catholic church’s sexual abuse of children—mostly boys—by their clergy.
As I have noted before, the track record of SNAP indicates quite strongly that if SNAP gets a religious organization “in its sights”, suspecting it of a pattern of coverups, transfers, lies, and deceit, it will track that organization down and hound it to the grave. If they believe that there is any hiding, whatever they find will no longer be hidden at all. SNAP has demonstrated that it will never stop. I personally believe that the Episcopal church is an excellent organization for which SNAP may . . . shall we say . . . proffer its attention and its unique gifts.
Here’s a portion from Tuesday’s article:
“The international sexual abuse prevention and advocacy group planned to deliver a letter to Minnesota Episcopal officials to “blast” them for their secrecy regarding Mark Makowski and Lynn Bauman and ask that they disclose the names of any other known child predators working in the diocese, according to their news release.
After receiving SNAP’s letter Monday, the state Episcopal Diocese issued a statement that said it would respond after carefully considering the letter and taking it under advisement.
In 1995, Makowski, a former Catholic priest who served in Duluth and throughout the region, was sentenced to six months at the Northeast Regional Correctional Center and seven years of probation for the sexual assault of a 16-year-old boy while Makowski was a pastor at St. John Catholic parish in Grand Marais and Holy Rosary parish in Grand Portage.
More recently, Makowski served as an alternate representative for the Episcopal Diocesan Council representing District 8, which encompasses Minneapolis. The council, which is elected, oversees the diocese’s program and budget, according to its Web site.”
A quick google of “Mark Makowski” reveals a brief paragraph concerning the incident from 1995.
In 1995, a minor told his parents of sexual abuse by Makowski and they filed a complaint with police. He was convicted, defrocked and served a prison sentence, Fournier said.
Further slim details may be found here, with a summary of the issue referenced from the News-Tribune in 1995:
After initially pleading innocent to 3rd-degree sexual assault misconduct, Rev. Mark Makowski, 38, pleaded guilty to a plea bargain of 4th-degree misconduct in March. The pastor of St. John Catholic Parish in Grand Marais and Holy Rosary Parish in Grand Portage admitted he molested a 16 year old boy after giving him alcohol. “There’s a lot of people in this community who didn’t believe this happened,” noted prosecutor William Hennessy. “The family is happy that the trugh came out.”
There are also quite a number of current links to a “Mark Makowski’s” activities in Minnesota. [Of course, one cannot know if this “Mark Makowski” in Minnesota is the same Mark Makowski who committed the crime in Minnesota.]
A “Mark Makowski” participated in the 2007 Minnesota Aids Walk, contributed to the 2006 Minnesota Aids Project, and a “Jeremy Kurtz & Mark Makowski” contributed to The Aliveness Project, which “consists of people living with HIV/AIDS and concerned individuals of the community” [both also contributed to the Minnesota Aids Project in 2003]. A “Mark Makowski” was a delegate [along with a “Jeremy Kurtz”] to the GALA Choruses 2004 Festival [“the only national association of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender and allied choruses”], and contributed to the Philanthrofund Foundation, “a catalyst in building communities in Minnesota and the Upper Midwest where gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people are celebrated and live free from discrimination, violence, invisibility and isolation.” A “Jeremy F Kurtz and Mark J Makowski” also contributed to OutFront Minnesota—“Leading Minnesota Toward GLBT Equality”. Mark Makowski’s online profile states in part: “When not at work, Mark is immersed in home life with partner and cats, church leadership, and is hooked on hockey, football and baseball as a spectator. Photography, writing, reading, outdoor hiking & canoeing and political/religious discussions make up some of his passions.” A Jeremy Kurtz and Mark Makowski also live at the same address in Minnesota.
A “Jeremy Kurtz” is also a contributor of “YouthLink,” a partnership for homeless youth in Minneapolis.
Mark Makowski is listed in the minutes as attending a 2007 Diocesan Council meeting—a meeting, incidentally, where Bishop Jelinek pronounced that [according to the minutes] “In Minnesota, he feels that the Episcopal Church has gained more parishioners over the consecration of Gene Robinson than it has lost”, which is a somewhat surprising theory, since the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota has moved from nearly 10,000 in ASA in 2002 to around 7500 in 2006, and a membership of about 28,000 in 2002 to a membership of about 25,000 in 2006. Of course, the past 10 years overall also demonstrate a steady and near unrelenting decline; Bishop Jelinek has been the bishop of the diocese since 1993.
And Makowski is still listed on the diocesan web site as of today as an “Alternate Representative” on Diocesan Council for Region 8, despite the statement of the Legal Coordinator for the diocese, Renee Carlson , who mentioned in the Duluth News Tribune story that “to her understanding he was no longer serving in it.”
In one final surge of irony, a “Mark J. Makowski” of Minneapolis writes a letter to The National Catholic Weekly in 2003 and a year earlier a “Mark Makowski” writes a letter in response to an article in the same journal.
The irony? Well . . . in the 2002 letter, “Mark Makowski” says this [ital added]:
“I appreciate the varied letters to the editors that manage to be published. The process on how one is selected seems to be akin to how one is admitted to Harvard. 2002 will be remembered by me for how the Catholic hierarchy became more insane. William Donohue’s letter seemed to be compassionate towards admission of gay men to the celibate priesthood but his usage of “immature” seems to be a hidden bias against gay men. The few priests that have confided about their own maturity admit that there are many levels of their personal lives that have not developed since before entering the seminary. Francis DeBernardo appears to have locked in on the real issue concerning ordaining gay men. Unfortunately, W.E.LaMothe has some hysterical notion of gay men especially in the way they recruit young men. The gender of W.E. remains hidden but one can only assume that those who use only initials to sign their letters must belong to a secret society, possibly a Papist who should be rounded up and removed from the shores of America.
I know that if I keep writing, I will enter the hierarchy-zone and kiss my intellect good-bye.”
Obviously, there is no way to know if the “Mark Makowski” who wrote that letter is the same “Mark Makowski” who was once a Roman Catholic priest, and in 1995 was convicted in a plea bargain arrangement of molesting a 16-year-old boy “after giving him alcohol.” And thankfully, one does not need to know that in order to see the irony of the letter.
Almost exactly one year ago, I did a rather extensive compendium of quotes and links about another Episcopalian who is invited into the diocese of Minnesota and that the organization SNAP [Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests] has focused on as well.
I bumped that article to the top of last week’s feature stack, because it’s important to remember the specific details of the Episcopal diocese of Minnesota’s actions.
Here is one major section of that original post, quoted here, and extensively so:
It seems that SNAP is involved with another story about an ex-Episcopal priest and the retreat center, “Episcopal House of Prayer,” in the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota.
The Episcopal House of Prayer offers such helpful retreats as “Taking Jesus Seriously: Buddhist Meditation for Christians,” “Yoga: A Spiritual Practice,” and “Wisdom School Introduction”, this latter taught by Lynn Bauman. From the Retreat Center website is this helpful description of the course:
“Fifty years ago a very ancient and precious document from the beginning of Christianity came to light—the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. It was found in Egypt, and only surfaced onto the contemporary scene after much difficulty and intrigue. Clearly, this woman student of Jesus played an important role not only in his life, but also in the early formation of Christianity. Ultimately she and her Gospel were rejected and disappeared from view – only to surface 2000 years later.
Legends, such as those now told in the popular DaVinci Code, are widely available today. Though a mixture of fact and fiction, they point to a deeper reality that this Gospel uncovers and makes available now, after lying hidden from view for thousands of years. Are we ready for what it reveals?
Perhaps we are! In this seminar we will explore the legends, the Gospel, and the principles of the Divine Feminine all of which intrigue our modern imagination. Critical to each of us is the wisdom they bring to our own lives, and to the collective life of modern humanity. Come prepared for an adventure of Spirit. Cost: $310”
On Tuesday this week, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune revealed that Dr. Bauman is a registered sex offender:
“A group representing clergy sex-abuse victims criticized an Episcopal retreat center in Collegeville, Minn., on Tuesday for inviting a registered sex offender—the brother of the center’s director—to lead a retreat this weekend.
Lynn Bauman, 64, admitted to molesting an 8-year-old boy on a camping trip in 1996 and was sentenced to 10 years’ probation, according to the Texas Department of Corrections. He said Tuesday night that he admitted to wrongdoing and has not reoffended, and that it is “not germane” to his work now.”
Today, St. Paul Pioneer Press also picked up the story:
Organizers “are in denial. They should warn people. They have a responsibility to protect children; they owe society that,” said Bob Schwiderski of the Minnesota chapter of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.
But church officials and the Episcopal House of Prayers board president asked for understanding and forgiveness Wednesday.
“Clearly an incident occurred. And he has been judged and punished,” said Helen Hansen, of St. Paul, a longtime retreat center board member and its president. “He has taken the proper steps. We are not dealing with a repeat offender. … He has something important — insight and wisdom — to share.”
Of course, Abuse Tracker, a blog by retired religion reporter Kathy Shaw has noted the story.
The original story about the abuse, from an October 1999 issue of the Anglican Journal offered these details:
“Dr. Lynn Bauman, 57, pleaded guilty in Texas to indecency with a child by contact and inducing a sexual performance by a child. He was sentenced in August to 10 years probation, fined $1,500 and ordered to perform 240 hours of community service.”
I was very clear in the original post that my issues with Dr. Bauman’s continued work are not “he’s a sinner—sinners should not work” but about—once again—the arrogance and presumption of the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota not being clear and up-front about him while allowing his continued leadership at Episcopal events in that diocese.
Now, we have something awfully similar happening one year later—and we have the same organization blowing the whistle on it.
At this point, I’m wondering the same thing that SNAP seems to be wondering. Just how many more convicted sexual molesters of boys are in leadership positions or honored speakers at Episcopal events in the Diocese of Minnesota? SNAP has asked “that they disclose the names of any other known child predators working in the diocese” and I certainly can understand that request.
But in my article of a year ago, I focused on some larger issues as well, not merely the secrecy issue, which is significant enough.
Let’s recap.
—The Episcopal Retreat Center seems to be largely interested in presenting workshops on eastern religion, with a thin and obscuring glaze of Christianity baked on
—It chooses as a key presenter a person who is heavily and intensely involved with gnostic spirituality and a presenter at a gay activist organization
—He is also a convicted sexual offenderI need to be clear. Those who are convicted of crimes—any crimes—are certainly allowed to support themselves and be contributing members of society. That is not the issue here, nor does it seem to be the issue of SNAP.
But the entire array of facts raises some interesting questions for Episcopalians in the Diocese of Minnesota.
1. Is anyone concerned about the non-Christian and rather unbalanced teaching that is going on at the retreat center?
2. Is it significant that Ward Bauman, the director of the retreat center, is Lynn Bauman’s brother, according to the St. Paul Pioneer Press?
3. What should the diocese of Minnesota do, if anything, about assuring the moral character of spiritual leaders of the flock of Jesus Christ?
4. Is anyone—particularly laity—in the Diocese of Minnesota awake out there?
5. And . . . [this appears to be SNAP’s issue] should the diocese have been up-front, at the least, about the criminal activities of Dr. Bauman at a retreat in 1997 so that parents could be informed, rather than appear to be keeping retreat attenders and Episcopalians in the diocese in the dark?As I have [cautiously] observed the activities of SNAP over the past years, I know one thing. If SNAP gets a religious organization “in its sights”, suspecting it of a pattern of coverups, transfers, lies, and deceit, it will track that organization down and hound it to the grave.
It will never stop.
I don’t know what SNAP is thinking about the past two “experiences” its had with leaders in our denomination.
Their issue with the retreat center and the diocese of Minnesota seems to be best described in this quote from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:
“SNAP believes retreat participants “should not be kept in the dark” if a facilitator is a sex offender.
“We want to be fair to the institutions involved, and this might be an excellent program, but let’s call a spade a spade,” he said. “Sex offenders are registered for a reason. People should not be kept in the dark about who they’re dealing with.”
As I ponder the last three rather eye-opening years for me and other traditional Episcopalians, I think I know exactly what SNAP means when it talks about people being “kept in the dark.”
Traditional Episcopalians are quite familiar with that sensation about a broad array of other matters.
I see three ominous trends with the two examples noted above in the Diocese of Minnesota.
First, there is the trend in the Episcopal church that there need be no criteria for participating in church leadership. If you are breathing, and are able to sit in a pew, then you can “lead.” Yet the New Testament details a number of criteria for church leadership beyond “being alive” and “sitting in a pew”. And of course, normal secular companies have criteria as well. If you have DUI’s on your driving record, some businesses will not hire you. If you are convicted of certain forms of stealing, other companies that sell high-end, easily transportable products, will not hire you. Some citizens of our country have forfeited their right to vote. Criteria and higher standards for leadership abound in the secular world, but not, it seems in the Episcopal church.
Are there any past behaviors that should preclude one from serving in a position of church leadership? I think so. And I would say that criminal sexual behavior by an adult against a young person is one of those behaviors.
Second, once a person is elevated to church leadership, there are some, it seems, in the Episcopal church who don’t want anyone to “say that out loud” about criminal behaviors like child molestation. They are willing to promote them to leadership positions, without being open and aboveboard about that person’s criminal behavior towards minors. And yet, church members make decisions about their children and young people’s involvement in certain activities and at certain locations based on who will be involved and where—whether it’s the neighborhood children, other youth peers, or adults, whether it is the choir room in the undercroft, or the Diocesan house. Church members may even actually decide whom to vote for in church elections based in part on their past records of achievements, failures, and yes, immoral and criminal behavior.
Third, and most creepily, I get the sense increasingly in our society—especially and shockingly in church circles—that sexual criminal behavior is not perceived as actually all that bad—no worse than any other crime. Understand, I’m not speaking of moral or immoral behavior, which from God’s point of view, has no ranking. All are sinners, all come under God’s judgement, and all must receive an atonement and a reconciliation with God through Christ’s work on the cross. There is no “ranking” of sin, from the perspective of whether we are or are not under the judgement of God and not in fellowship with God. It’s all bad, and it all deserves condemnation. Without reconciliation with God through Christ, we will be forever absent from God.
But the law rightly distinguishes the degree of crime. There are crimes that “cause no harm,” there are crimes which harm only material goods, and there are crimes that harm or threaten harm to other people. In that latter category, there are crimes that harm others “without violence” and crimes that harm others “with violence.” In that latter category, there are crimes that harm or threaten harm with violence to one’s peers—other adults—and crimes that harm with violence those who are weaker and not one’s peers—children and youth.
As heinous as, for example, adult rape is—the sexual assault with violence upon a woman or man against whom one is stronger or has superior weapons—that is still not as heinous a crime as the sexual assault upon a minor. Even if the child or young person is not overtly threatened, it is still a gross misuse of one’s adulthood and maturity to prey upon a weaker person, one who is weaker psychologically, rationally, emotionally, sexually, and physically and one over whom one is in authority and power.
Does no one see that allowing people who have done such things—engaged in criminal sexual activity against a weaker human being who is not even an adult peer—to act as leaders in the church is dangerous, irresponsible, and cavalier about sexual abuse of young people? It’s as if the whole notion of societal disapproval towards such horrible, criminal behavior is now outmoded, passe, and unmentionable.
SNAP is basing their questions and their pursuits on past experience—namely past experience with the same sort of cavalier, wink-wink responses as I have detailed above, and as the Roman Catholic church in the U.S. practiced with deadly results for decades. I sure hope that somebody, somewhere, sitting in the pews of the diocese of Minnesota is asking some of the same questions that SNAP is asking.

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16 comments
Good for SNAP! The Diocese of Minnesota’s attitude is the type that allows this shameful atrociously to continue, but exposing predators and increasing reporting has lead to dramatic drops in sexual assaults. However there is a LONG way to go.
I very happy a hound dog like SNAP is on this case. It appears the diocese is operating contrary to the stated official “zero tolerance” policy of the national office. Maybe after some heat, there might be a culture change that will bring more openness and conformity to policy.
[1] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 2-15-2008 at 11:44 AM · [top]
This is some great investigative journalism. It is not just an absence of standards; it seems like there ARE standards and they are warped (Anglicat, a blogger in MN, just used the term “bent” when talking about some of these issues.)
[2] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 2-18-2008 at 09:09 AM · [top]
I truly believe that part of the reason a blind eye is turned when the offense involved is adult-male-on-postpubescent-minor-male molestation is that there is fear that those who know about this will associate this behavior with male homosexuality in general. The mantra from gay-rights advocates is that there is no connection, even though we all know the idolization of youth that pervades that subculture, and the incredibly high number of homosexual males who were themselves introduced to that sort of sex by older men when they were under age. So to avoid the demonization of the gay lifestyle, these horrendous offenses are swept under the rug, lest anyone (rightly or wrongly) connect those dots. (And there may also be some self-interest at work here, too, among those who look the other way.) And if children suffer or are put at risk as a result—well, they must think that’s okay.
Bully for SNAP and for you, Sarah, in exposing this.
[3] Posted by VaAnglican on 2-18-2008 at 09:24 AM · [top]
We Catholics have learned from this whole thing that recidivism is high, and that it is unfortunate to ever declare that a convicted sex offender hasn’t reoffended. You just don’t know, do you?
Anyway, I have no problem with convicted sex offenders earning a livelihood. BUT, when you talk about criminal background checks and seminars and such, and then you find that you have people that, well, flunked the background check (I’m hoping that a conviction for child sex abuse would flunk a safe kids check), it makes one wonder.
And, who is this guy’s monitor when he is a church? His partner? I don’t get it. How can someone who is monitored while in a church building be a person to be elected to ANY church office?
[4] Posted by Paul B on 2-18-2008 at 10:05 AM · [top]
While that question is valid, I would like to point out the following garnered from SoHopeful, Inc.:
You’ll notice that the “man molesting a boy” scenario truly does have a recidivism rate and is difficult to treat, but not all persons on the sex offender registry for “child molestation” are truly predatory and fall into that “high recidivism” assumption. One must look at each case to determine who is at risk to re-offend and who is not.
Having said that, I agree that the people referred to in the article above do cause alarm. I am just trying to do my part to keep the mass hysteria and “all registered sex offenders are pedophilic monsters” mentality at a minimum.
[5] Posted by Florida Anglican [Support Israel] on 2-18-2008 at 10:26 AM · [top]
In post #5 above:
“You’ll notice that the “man molesting a boy” scenario truly does have a recidivism rate and is difficult to treat…”
should read
“You’ll notice that the “man molesting a boy” scenario truly does have a HIGH recidivism rate and is difficult to treat…”
[6] Posted by Florida Anglican [Support Israel] on 2-18-2008 at 12:24 PM · [top]
Yes, it is true that Ward Bauman (the Director of our Minnesota Diocese’s House of Prayer) is the brother of Lynn Bauman, the convicted sex offender scheduled to lead three retreats at the House of Prayer this year.
for the short report: http://www.anglikin.blogspot.com
[7] Posted by Anglicat on 2-18-2008 at 01:21 PM · [top]
“For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.” (Luke 12:2)
“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” (John 3:19)
[8] Posted by Bob K. on 2-18-2008 at 01:28 PM · [top]
It seems to me that TEC is best known for its cardinal doctrine of not judging any sin. That means that we are left with a church that has no judgment.
[9] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 2-18-2008 at 09:10 PM · [top]
Three points, the last with tongue in cheek:
First, while I’m always hesitant to dispute Sarah Hey, I have a bit of trouble with “Understand, I’m not speaking of moral or immoral behavior, which from God’s point of view, has no ranking.” I am perhaps less willing to speak so knowingly of “God’s point of view”, as I do not believe that my human mind could begin to encompass it. That said, I have trouble believing that God ranks torture, rape and murder, let alone such things as the Holocaust, as no worse than an eight year old swiping a candy bar from her brother. While it is certainly true that “It’s all bad, and it all deserves condemnation,” the Body of Christ has has for many centuries taught that there are differences in the “ranking” of sins—both eastern and western branches of Catholic Christianity have such differentiations. While the Eastern Orthodox do not speak of ‘mortal’ and ‘venial’ sins, they do separate those sins which would bar the sinner from receiving Communion before confessing them from those which would not (in Eastern Orthodoxy, you aren’t automatically damned if you die before confessing such a serious sin). [Curiously, within the bounds of the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Rite Catholics follow the Orthodox teaching, vice the Roman.] Thus, there is “ranking” of sin, although in the end “all have fallen short” (whether, using RC terminology, it’s mortal or venial, it’s <u>still</u> sin), and it is only through Christ’s salvific sacrifice on the Cross that we may be saved.
Second, as alleyHM (#5 above) points out “This category includes substantial sexual contact with a minor, and that contact may be reciprocated. However, many juveniles are being charged with “attempted molestation of a child” for having a boy- or girlfriend under 18.” I’ve read that there are prosecutors out there who have charged 17 year old boys with statutory rape for having consensual sex with their 16 year old girlfriends. While on the one hand such behavior is sinful, being outside the bond of marriage, it is hardly a civil “sex crime”. If convicted, though, the kid becomes a ‘registered sex offender”. This surely should create a fourth category for sex offenders:
*homosexual -man/boy - highest reoffense rate, hardest to treat, may have multiple victims
*heterosexual - low reoffense rate, respond well to treatment, many times one or low number of victims;
*intra-familial - lowest reoffense rate, responds best to treatment, very often one victim
And:
*inane.
Finally, and tongue in cheek, if the Makowski who is serving on (or is an alternate to—the story seemed unclear on this) Diocesan Council is indeed the same man who was convicted of sexually molesting a youth and then ‘defrocked’ by the Roman Catholic Church, then it’s the safest place to put him. I’ve served on Diocesan Council (NOT in Minnesota), and not just are there no youth around to be put at risk, but much of the agenda can put the average non-accountant into a coma, making him that much safer to the general populace!
[That said, I’ve been either canonically resident or licensed in five dioceses in TEC and one in the Nippon Seiko Kai, and am now in process of being licensed in the Igreja Lusitana… and have <u>never</u> been anywhere that did not require a background check—most insisted on attendance at a workshop as well. Granted, I’m ordained, but as I remember it was usually true of lay leaders as well, at least those who would have any contact with children or adolescents. This may have been good and moral practice on behalf of the dioceses… if not, it was certainly the heavy pressure from the Church Insurance folk, who have no desire to be hit with the kinds of settlements the Roman Catholics have faced.]
FCZ+
[10] Posted by Conego on 2-18-2008 at 11:21 PM · [top]
RE: “I am perhaps less willing to speak so knowingly of “God’s point of view”, as I do not believe that my human mind could begin to encompass it.”
Heh.
Spoken like a real progressive, CanonZ. ; > )
[11] Posted by Sarah on 2-18-2008 at 11:32 PM · [top]
Sarah Hey,
I certainly hope to be progressive!
That is, I certainly hope to “go from strength to strength in the life of perfect service…”
(Oh, that <u>isn’t</u> how TEC defines progressive? Darn.)
FCZ+
[12] Posted by Conego on 2-19-2008 at 12:27 AM · [top]
Heh again . . . and it was the TEC definition of progressive you sound exactly like, CanonZ.
Louie Crew couldn’t have said it better himself: “I am perhaps less willing to speak so knowingly of “God’s point of view”, as I do not believe that my human mind could begin to encompass it.”
; > )
[13] Posted by Sarah on 2-19-2008 at 08:05 AM · [top]
Heh, indeed. You know, I don’t think I’ve ever been compared to Crew before.
Rather than TEC’s version of progressive, which is “We <u>do</u> know God’s point of view… and it’s changed from what those misogynistic 1st Century homophobes wrote,” I tend more toward the Anglo-Catholic ‘Transcendent” view of God—perhaps because I’m a convert from Judaism.
I know, indeed, what God has told us in inspired Holy Scripture. I’m not sure that I would say that allowed me to fully understand “God’s point of view”. Or, to put it another way, I know what God wants us to know, because He has told us in Scripture, and has continued telling us through His Holy Spirit. But I also believe that represents at best a tiny, tiny fraction of “God’s point of view”—His “point of view” so completely transcends anything I could understand that… well, I have to <u>accept,</u>, through faith, what He has told us, rather then insisting on understanding.
Or, as God reminded Job,
“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. ...Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this.” (Job 38:4, 18 -RSV)
God gave Job quite a list of things about which Job did not know God’s point of view, up to and including ‘what the mountain goats bring forth’ (39:1) at one end of the spectrum and the binding and loosing of constellations (38:31) at the other, all the while making it clear that, from the point of view of the God of the Old Testament, the only one who could truly understand Him was One who could respond to “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.” (38:4). And there is only One who can answer that— “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (St. John 1:1 -RSV)
I’m pretty thick-skinned (well, moderately thick-skinned), but please—don’t compare my (completely orthodox, albeit more ‘High-Church Transcendent’ than ‘Evangelical Imminent’) theology to that of Louie Crew! I may claim not to be able to fully understand “God’s point of view”, but that’s a different thing from TEC’s informing God what His point of view <u>should</u> be.
Pax.
FCZ+
[14] Posted by Conego on 2-19-2008 at 11:48 PM · [top]
Interesting, Canon Z. As a messianic Jew myself, I have come to believe that our duty is to take what God has revealed and entrusted to His people, and obey it: “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.” (Deut 29:29). That principle has never changed. The incredibly meticulous care with which various Jewish scribes have copied and transmitted the scriptures by hand down through the ages is legend, and according to the Apostle Paul, that was our sacred service to mankind: “What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.” (Romans 3:1-2)
While we now have the complete written record of Heaven in our possession, the Holy Spirit has (since Pentecost) now been given to believers “that we might know the things that are freely given to us from God”, and, in that sense, have “the mind of Christ.” I have learned that this “mind” must be as fully submitted to God and His word as possible, or we stand to open ourselves to deception of every sort.
If I may ask; you said you were “converted from Judaism.” Were you an observant Jew, perhaps orthodox, or from a conservative/reform persuasion?
[15] Posted by Bob K. on 2-20-2008 at 01:21 AM · [top]
Bob K,
I think that I would have to differ with you on a single phrase (and please, Sarah Hey, don’t start ‘Heh’-ing me again!): when you write “While we now have the complete written record of Heaven in our possession…”. Heaven is in ‘Kairos’ in God’s time—it is eternal, ‘outside’ of ‘‘Kronos/Chronos, our human, linear, ‘chonological’ time. The complete record of Heaven would have to include all those things which have not yet, from our limited human viewpoint, happened yet. They are certainly known in Heaven, which is outside time (thus, Christ could describe His Return and Judgment in Matt. 25:31ff), but we, living within Chronos, cannot have a ‘complete written record’ of Heaven, because we cannot have a ‘record’ of all that which hasn’t happened yet. [Small example—a <u>complete</u> written record of Heaven would include whether or not my eldest great-grandchild will ever get/did ever get/is now getting there(you see the problem with describing the eternal from our linear time)... but here in Chronos I don’t as yet even have any great-grandchildren!]
That is not to say that the Holy Scriptures aren’t absolutely essential to us—only that they are not a <u>complete</u> written record of Heaven (and even in this day of digitalized media, such a ‘complete’ record would take more space than we could ever create, I suspect, given Eternity’s immeasurable immensity).
On the other hand, I can’t agree with you more when you write “I have learned that this “mind” must be as fully submitted to God and His word as possible, or we stand to open ourselves to deception of every sort.” One of the first Portuguese I met when I arrived here last October was a real estate agent who helped me look for an aprtment (and with whom I did <u>not</u> end up doing business)—and, knowing that I was an Anglican priest, kept asking me all sorts of questions about whether I believed in spirits inhabiting people, and whether I could do exorcisms.
I try to be open to all sorts of curious ‘windows’ for evangelism, but these questions, and the intensity with which he asked them, seemed a bit off-key (not to mention that they were really pushing my Portuguese, a language I hadn’t used for some years!). It turns out that he, despite being Portuguese and not Brazilian, was a member of an Umbanda “church”, here in Braga—which is the most conservative Roman Catholic city in this R.C. country. Umbanda is a mix of misunderstood Catholicism and remembered African animistic religions, cobbled together by slaves brought to Brazil in the 18th and 19th Centuries (it’s sometimes considered the Brazilian “white magic”, as compared to Macumba’s “dark magic”), and because of its shared roots is somewhat similar to Voudon in Haiti.
And, you’re poor, or sick, or afraid, it can have its attractions, both in its emphasis of the spiritual over the material (gnosticism has ways of popping up in the most unlikely places…) as well as in its belief that the gods/saints/spirits can be placated or bribed to do one’s will, if you only know how (see previous parentheses).
Which is just further evidence, as if any were needed, that we “must be as fully submitted to God and His word as possible” or we do indeed “open ourselves to deception of every sort”. Yet, have you noticed—although we talk about ‘deception of every sort’, just as we used to teach that there were ‘Seven Deadly Sins’, in reality, it’s just one deception, and one Deceiver, and in the end it’s really just one Deadly Sin—Pride. All the rest are mere sub-categories of human pride. Greed? Putting <u>my</u> will for money/things/power/ ahead of God’s will for me and for His Creation. Gluttony? Putting <u>my</u> will to stuff myself ahead of God’s will for me and for His Creation. Lust? Putting <u>my</u> will for sexual pleasure ahead of God’s will for me and for His Creation. And so on.
They’re basically the same deceptions, advanced by the same Deceiver, that Jesus refused when He was tempted in the desert after His baptism. And just as the Deceiver remains unchanged, so too must our the response be unchanged from Jesus’. He turned from the Tempter, quoting God’s Word—just as you write that we too “must be as fully submitted to God and His word as possible” to avoid falling.
And to your final question, while my great-grandfather was an orthodox rabbi, in this country the family moved from Orthodox to somewhere between ‘Reform’ and ‘ethnic/cultural’... except for me. I started out shifting between ‘observing’ and ‘observant’, and ended up (to my father’s dismay and confusion) a ‘biretta and maniple, smoke and bells’ Anglo-Catholic priest. God does has a sense of humor.
[16] Posted by Conego on 2-20-2008 at 08:47 PM · [top]
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