November 23, 2014

August 1, 2009


DioMN Nominates Partnered Lesbian for Bishop

Barely two weeks after General Convention, the Diocese of Minnesota has nominated Bonnie Perry, a partnered lesbian, for bishop.

Integrity is “delighted” at the news, saying that “the actions of our General Convention will put a sad chapter of discrimination against the LGBT baptized behind us.”


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90 comments

Wow!!!! Didn’t take long, did it? Woo Hoo, clarity here we come. Bets anyone? tick.tick.tick.tick.tick…......

the snarkster™

[1] Posted by the snarkster on 8-1-2009 at 01:08 PM · [top]

Dang.  If she wins the election, gets the consents and is consecrated, Schori and Anderson will have to come up with a whole new spin on how this doesn’t end the “moratorium”.  Voting in October, consents by about the end of February, they have until March I would guess.

[2] Posted by Nevin on 8-1-2009 at 01:18 PM · [top]

If you’re concerned about the direction of the Episcopal Church, it doesn’t really matter which one wins. The candidates amount to one party member and two fellow travelers. The three are all a much of a muchness.

In terms of the Anglican Communion, Bonnie Perry is the one to watch. On one level, I hope she gets the nod. Just for the sheer schadenfreude of listening to the apologists explain about how GC 2009 didn’t end the moratorium and all that. But then again, I’ve always enjoyed fireworks…..

[3] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 8-1-2009 at 01:23 PM · [top]

It would almost be worth her getting the position just to take some of the spotlight of Vicki.  Gay bishops?  That’s so last year.  Lesbian non-bishops are the new thing!

[4] Posted by AndrewA on 8-1-2009 at 01:39 PM · [top]

I think there will be a race among some of the dioceses to see who gets the next LGTB bishop. I think LA diocese may try to get one nominated as well.

[5] Posted by martin5 on 8-1-2009 at 01:45 PM · [top]

I really thought it would be Tracey Lind, the lesbian deaness of the Cleveland Cathedral who gave the invocation at the Democratic National Convention.

But definitely it will be a lesbian. That is too PC to pass on.

I am routing for Ms Perry. The election approval process will be utterly devastating to the denomination regardless of outcome.

[6] Posted by robroy on 8-1-2009 at 02:03 PM · [top]

If she wins the election, gets the consents and is consecrated, Schori and Anderson will have to come up with a whole new spin on how this doesn’t end the “moratorium”.

Oh, that’s easy, Nevin, even I can put the proper spin on that one.  The moratorium was on, see, then it was off, now it’s on again!  Just follow the shell with the pea under it…simple as pie.

[7] Posted by Jeffersonian on 8-1-2009 at 02:12 PM · [top]

One of her workshops listed in her resume:

“How Body Piercing Can Enhance Your Congregation: Creative Liturgies to
Reach Generation X” Consortium for Endowed Congregations in the Episcopal Church.
Indianapolis, Indiana, February 2001.

H/t Anglicat who has a link to the candidates bios, resumes, and answers.

Minnesota is in twouble.

[8] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 8-1-2009 at 02:20 PM · [top]

I find it painful to read that anyone might support this woman just so that her election might inflict further injury on TEC.

Schadenfreude is joy in watching the suffering of others.

I don’t see any smiley faces.

Shame!

It’s merely time for Stand Firm to mount an investigation of all 3 candidates.

[9] Posted by Ralph on 8-1-2009 at 02:23 PM · [top]

She was ordained in 1990 by the Rt. Rev. John S. Spong, Bishop, Diocese of Newark.

They also have an Inclusive Language Eucharist 8am.

[10] Posted by martin5 on 8-1-2009 at 02:34 PM · [top]

Just before I shipeed out to Iraq Tracy Lind had an OPED in the Plain Dealer stting that Easter was offensive to our Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Taoist, Buddest and Looneytoon brothers and sister. She wanted to rewrite the whole story so that is doesn’t upset anyone. Next thing we will do is rewrite the Christmas Story so that doesn’t offend anyone and rewrite the Hymns… Ooops we dod that already… We Three Well Educated and Influencial Royalty, Omnipresent Person Grant You Respite Happy Persons… All I want for this festive occasion is MY two front teeth (and a doggie and a pony)...

[11] Posted by bdino on 8-1-2009 at 02:38 PM · [top]

Keep in mind this was in the works prior to GC09, which makes this even worse.  Bonnie (It’s a hacksaw, not a tin of kippers) Perry will be the perfect choice for this contemptuous and dysfunctional diocese.

[12] Posted by Bill2 on 8-1-2009 at 02:38 PM · [top]

Let’s clear one part of this up. Schori and other spinners have been clear that the “restraint” of B033 (it was never a moratorium in TEC) will end when it ends. When the next consecration happens they won’t try to re-spin B033; it will then be officially dead.

I’m rooting for Perry; bring on more clarity.

[13] Posted by Gator on 8-1-2009 at 02:43 PM · [top]

Undergroundpwester (#8),

Thanks for calling everyone’s attention to the info over at Kathryn Jeffrey’s blog, Anglicat.  As an orthodox priest in MN, she should continue to provide us with valuable info as it becomes available.  And believe me, Kathryn+ is no pussycat; she’s a tiger!  I look forward to seeing how she mauls Bonnie Perry+.

David Handy+

[14] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 8-1-2009 at 03:03 PM · [top]

In my previous posts I have been very careful not to be combative.

I’m done with that now. 

I am absolutely appalled at the way you people are talking about this.  I get that you don’t approve of this move, but explain to me exactly how any of you can claim that you are “being loving in everything that you do” when you are saying that you hope we select her specifically because you believe it will hurt the Church!  Or even worse, there’s Martin5’s

I am routing for Ms Perry. The election approval process will be utterly devastating to the denomination regardless of outcome.


Or bdino’s

Perry will be the perfect choice for this contemptuous and dysfunctional diocese.

My diocese will be just fine, thank you.  We will discern who GOD tells us to call, based on the spirit, not based on sexual orientation.  Would you like me to start quoting the conversations I’ve had to prove that?  We will rejoice that we can now focus on healing the brokenness in this world, and that we can choose whichever leader will best guide us in that mission. 

And I will rejoice that we have moved on from all this bitterness and rancor, unlike so many of you.

[15] Posted by Proud Liberal on 8-1-2009 at 03:10 PM · [top]

Ralph—I understand where you are coming from, however, Perry’s election will not change the position or direction of the Episcopal Church (thus inflicting more “suffering”), but it will make it more difficult for TEC’s leadership and its allies in the ACC to spin what happened at General Convention.  As such, I see Perry’s election as the preferred outcome.  It could have a positive result if it tips a few Primates into taking more positive action, or helps to diminish TEC’s litigation warchest. That would result in less suffering, not more.

[16] Posted by Going Home on 8-1-2009 at 03:13 PM · [top]

EDIT ON THE ABOVE:

Just realized I misquoted above. The first blockquote above is from robroy, and the second is from Bill2.  My apologies to all, especially Martin5 and bdino, for the error.

[17] Posted by Proud Liberal on 8-1-2009 at 03:14 PM · [top]

I wonder how you’re going to heal said brokenness, PL, when you have a bishop that embraces one form of it (see Romans 1 for details).

Opposition to TGC, it’s vile leadership and its largely apostate episcopate is faithfulness to God at this point.

[18] Posted by Jeffersonian on 8-1-2009 at 03:15 PM · [top]

Greg, I’m going to ask you to sit down.

I am deeply hurt by this thread, as it incorrectly implies that the Diocese of Minnesota has nominated a partnered lesbian for bishop, and may well qualify as hate speech.

I would like to point out that the simple act of “nominating” a partnered lesbian would not, in itself, overturn the moratorium that some believe is implied by B033.

Neither would “electing” (whatever that means) a bishop who is engaged in a loving, faithful, sames-sex partnership necessarily imply the lifting of a perceived “moratorium” (more fuzzy language) that may or may not have been implicit in the “passing” of B033.

Indeed, electing AND CONSECRATING such a bishop also would not necessarily constitute an overturning of such an implied moratorium, nor would it imply a definitive end to our period of gracious restraint.

No, not until a partnered homosexual bishop has been elected, consecrated, served in an episcopal capacity, retired, received checks from the Church Pension Fund, died, and been buried in a crossroads under a new moon with a stake through its heart can it be said that there HAS BEEN such a bishop.

So let us not rush to judgment. Until then, we are simply exploring the possibility of what such a bishop might mean. We invite you to imagine more fully with us what might be implied by the “election” of such a hypothetical bishop, and to join us in deeper mutual dialog as we discern together the nuanced and pluriform meanings of “bishop”.

I have been baptized.

[19] Posted by Athanasian on 8-1-2009 at 03:17 PM · [top]

You want a Scripture battle, Jeffersonian?  Try reading the passage that we are all asked to remember before we post.  And again I say, tell me how you square phrases like “vile leadership” with that.

[20] Posted by Proud Liberal on 8-1-2009 at 03:18 PM · [top]

Subscribe, Jeffersonian.

[21] Posted by Passing By on 8-1-2009 at 03:19 PM · [top]

Proud Liberal,
If the spirit you follow, calls you counter to God’s Revealed Word, it is not His Spirit, but that of anti-Christ.

[22] Posted by Bo on 8-1-2009 at 03:19 PM · [top]

I stand by every word, PL.  See the video on SFiF’s homepage right now if you doubt the appropriateness of my adjective.  Your leadership is in no way Christian, and is leading people into Hell.  I’m sorry if you don’t like it.

[23] Posted by Jeffersonian on 8-1-2009 at 03:22 PM · [top]

Bonnie Perry: In addition to serving and leading All Saints I am an adjunct professor at Seabury‐Western Theological Seminary, where I teach advanced studies in congregational leadership and congregational transformation. I have also had the honor of consulting on issues of congregational growth, evangelism, leadership, stewardship and outreach with a number of small congregations. . .

Gee, she teaches the TEC how to grow, from her desk at a failed seminary.
Proud Liberal, why the sour grapes?  This candidate makes everyone happy. Rather inclusive of us!

[24] Posted by paradoxymoron on 8-1-2009 at 03:27 PM · [top]

Proud Liberal, you Diocisian ASA and membership statistics suggest that many of your members have indeed “moved on from all this bitterness and rancor” by moving to other denominations or the golf course on Sunday.  Do you believe that this trend will be reversed after your election?

[25] Posted by Going Home on 8-1-2009 at 03:28 PM · [top]

My Dear Proud Liberal,

Are we to understand that you object to our objection to a Partnered Lesbian being nominated to Bishop?
Or do you object to our tone in the criticism of said move?
Or do you object to the fact that some of us believe female ordination to be inappropriate?

I just want to make sure I know wherein lies your trepidation prior to addressing same.

God Bless You, and Keep the Faith….mrb

[26] Posted by Mike Bertaut on 8-1-2009 at 03:28 PM · [top]

Going Home: I don’t claim to read the future - regarding Church attendance OR which candidate will be elected Bishop. 

Mike Bertaut: Fair question.  As is pretty obvious by my username, or if you’ve read other posts of mine, I have a different theological opinion than most people here.  But it’s not the issues of female ordination or opinions about who should be a Bishop that prompted my post; I can agree to disagree on that.  It’s the tone of the above that I’m concerned with.

[27] Posted by Proud Liberal on 8-1-2009 at 03:34 PM · [top]

The extent to which I’m in favour of it is only to the extent that certain Episcopal PR flacks will no longer be able to spin GC 2009 as not ending a moratorium on communion challenging bishops.

If the Rev. Bonnie Perry gets the nod, then that will be a nice heaping helping of clarity. The other two apparently share the same theology/ideology but do not add any clarity to the situation.

In a situation where all of the three candidates are progressives to the core, their sexuality seems to be the only distinguishing characteristic.

[28] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 8-1-2009 at 03:41 PM · [top]

PL, like Jeffersonian, my concern is that the Episcopal denomination (I intentionally don’t say church) is causing people to make wrong decisions with eternal consequences. For that reason, I wish the liberal diocese of Minnesota all the worst (with the exception of Anglicat). But with draconian budget cuts, plummeting numbers, I don’t have to wish them ill fortune. They are bringing it upon themselves.

[29] Posted by robroy on 8-1-2009 at 03:42 PM · [top]

Proud Liberal maybe out to lunch theologically, but you are evading the main point: wishing the election of a partnered lesbian because of the variety of ways it will further politically the aims of conservatives is pernicious. It is an act that is contrary to scripture, tradition (and at this point reason), and is an act that will destroy people. No favorable political result can justify supporting such a thing.

We have three main calls: 1) Fight against such an election; and 2) pray like crazy against such an election; 3) Work to nominated a forth candidate.

[30] Posted by ursus on 8-1-2009 at 03:45 PM · [top]

I hope Bonnie Perry is nominated and confirmed as a bishopess in TEC. The faster they install more lesbians, transvestites and transgenders as Deacons, Priests and Bishops the better for real Christians to leave the cesspool of TEC. Perhaps the transgenders can change roles during the service for a little added entertainment. That would be quite the sight in the front of the meeting place (church). The children in the pews would have a million questions after observing the show.

[31] Posted by IBelieve on 8-1-2009 at 03:48 PM · [top]

PL—When I write that I hope Perry is chosen, it is because I’m sick to death of the double-speak from 815. Since this is clearly the direction TEo is going, have the ovaries (Elizabeth Kaeton suggested this once as an alternative to cojones) to stand up and say so clearly.

To suggest to the benighted third-world Primates that GC has not done a strategic and tactical bypass of B033 is a Big Lie. The Primates, including the ABC are not stupid.

And finally, you write that some of the sharp language above is naughty because it wishes for consequences to fall on TEo. Let me now get it off my chest that I’m convinced that TEo as a whole is no true church; it is, in my opinion, apostate. I serve in it as a missionary of the gospel as previously proclaimed for around twenty centuries.

[32] Posted by Gator on 8-1-2009 at 03:49 PM · [top]

We can pray for the changing of hearts within TEC, ursus, so that such a candidate would never be ordained, much less nominated.  But praying for just the rejection of the nominee is like asking for a lovely layer of makeup to be applied to a gangrenous limb.

[33] Posted by Jeffersonian on 8-1-2009 at 03:50 PM · [top]

Proud Liberal, how long have you been lurking at this blog?  I find it hard to believe you are surprised at (1) beliefs, (2) attitudes, (3) scorn as presented here, if you have been a frequent visitor - and not just drawn in over this current issue.

As a liberal/progressive member of TEC (TEO?) - I find it a bit humorous myself that after ALL the fancy language following GC on the outcome, that before some have completely unpacked their bags, we have this occurring.

I will say this.  Bonnie Perry was one of the five nominated candidates for the Diocese of California (?) just a couple years ago.  This will not be her first nomination for bishop.

Aside from the sexuality piece (and I realize that for many if not all of you that is insurmountable) she is a very capable leader and phenomenal preacher.  I realize that perhaps it’s a bit like saying, “Well, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?”

I look forward to reading much about her theology etc. and hope and pray that the personal attacks will be minimal.  Unlike our former bishop-elect here in NMi, I think Rev Perry’s sermons etc. will be within the realm of Christianity.

[34] Posted by renzinthewoods on 8-1-2009 at 03:53 PM · [top]

I agree renzinthewoods. Let’s stick with what she says, writes, believes etc.

[35] Posted by martin5 on 8-1-2009 at 04:05 PM · [top]

ursus—why is electing Perry any worse than the other nominees, if they share the same theology and worldview?

[36] Posted by Going Home on 8-1-2009 at 04:06 PM · [top]

I’ll bet on the local candidate to win, the man to place, and the Chicago rector to show.

[37] Posted by TomRightmyer on 8-1-2009 at 04:06 PM · [top]

Proud Liberal,

Thanks for that clarification.  I can only speak for myself, as one who joined the Episcopal Church many years ago, and then over the course of the ensueing 20 years had to watch it migrate into an organization that subsidized abortion on demand, denied the Divinity of Christ, de-coupled Scripture from its policies, and then, the last straw for me, reneged on deal after deal to sell property to Dioceses who joined the Episcopal Church over the last two centuries in good faith, and then when the organization began to embrace what they considered heresy, turned on each and every one of them and sued, even after majority votes were taken within each Diocese to leave.

What you are experiencing here is anger, frustration, and mostly grief.  Grief for the death of a once proud Christian Tradition, that has decided at all levels to cease to embrace our Deposit of Faith as handed down from the Apostles, and go its own way.

This disgust you hear in these posts, from many years of posting here, I clearly identify as grief.  And this community, as a place to share this grief and much like the death of a loved one, try to deal with it.

The world, my brothers and sisters, is changing, and the Unchangeable One is our only refuge and strength.  We do ourselves and our children a disservice by casting Christ aside and his admonitions that “not one jot or tittle will I change” in the Law and re-writing it on our own terms.

Hope this helps….

KTF!...mrb

[38] Posted by Mike Bertaut on 8-1-2009 at 04:12 PM · [top]

Obviously, I’ve got my own reasons for hoping that It’s a Sirloin Steak, Not a Digital TV Converter Box ERRRRRRRRR It’s a River, Not a Pie takes down this pot.  Go Bonnie, Go Bonnie, Go Bonnie…

[39] Posted by Christopher Johnson on 8-1-2009 at 04:17 PM · [top]

Thanks for that, Mike.  I absolutely understand that sense of grief; I left my birth tradition because of a similar sense of lost-ness, though for the exact opposite theological reasons.  We really do have more in common than many of us realize.

And to your point about property, I want to say that I absolutely agree that “your side” has been poorly treated, and “my side” is in the wrong.  I feel that “we” (that being those of us on the liberal side of the argument, though it’s hard for me personally to actually exert any influence on this issue) have not handled this well.  As my priest once said, the Episcopal Church pretty much did the same thing after the Revolution from England, so who are we to claim injury now?  I would like to see a resolution that allows for the financial integrity of BOTH sides of this debate.  I would want to see some provisions made within the conservative diocese for the “remain Episcopal” parishes, but this “we should have it all” attitude makes me profoundly uncomfortable and I don’t think it’s right.

[40] Posted by Proud Liberal on 8-1-2009 at 04:20 PM · [top]

“The worser, the better”
- Nikolay Gavrilovich Chernyshevsky
(Russian revolutionary)
He used the phrase ‘the worse the better’, to indicate that the worse the social conditions became for the poor, the more inclined they would be to launch a revolution

[41] Posted by RedHatRob on 8-1-2009 at 04:52 PM · [top]

I’ll agree with Tom #37 in the crystal ball dept., just based on the biographies and knowing the diocese a little bit.  Things haven’t been smooth sailing, to say the least, in Minnesota, and I think there will be some desire to go with someone they know well locally than to go, as they did before, after “a star in the East” (in their case, actually the West).

To step back from the party atmosphere for a moment, I’d just say that Brian Prior was a couple of years behind me at seminary, and he and I have crossed paths a number of times over the past 25 years.  Our theological perspectives and concerns about the direction of the church are very different, but he is a person of health and integrity and good humor, a Nicene Creed Trinitarian, and just plain a nice guy.  I don’t know the local nominee at all, but I’m sure the very liberal TEC Minnesota diocese would be well-served if he were to be elected.

Bruce Robison

[42] Posted by BMR+ on 8-1-2009 at 05:02 PM · [top]

Wowzer—three raving revisionists nominated.

And lookie—the search committee asked a question that simply assumed that there would be only raving revisionists in the final list.

Why—how “open-minded” and “inclusive” they were.  What a balanced search committee that must have been . . . leading to an inevitable balanced result.  ; > )

Good bye conservative Episcopalians in MN!!!

[43] Posted by Sarah on 8-1-2009 at 05:03 PM · [top]

I don’t think liberal theology or heresy is the real danger, but confusion. Proud liberal, you sould like someone who says what you mean and mean what you say. If everyone (and I include the conservatives in this) was candid and transparent in their communications with those in the pews, and those on the street, people could make an informed, and prayerful decision.  The Episcopal Church is on record as supporting the qualifications of partnered gay and lesbian Priests and Bishops. However, some have tried to suggest that some type of moratorium is still in place, a clearly deceptive statement. Perry’s election would expose that lie for what it is. Can I order a bumper sticker?

[44] Posted by Going Home on 8-1-2009 at 05:11 PM · [top]

I notice that Rev. Budde’s resume shows that she takes responsibility for organizing the Paul Wellstone Memorial Service, so we know she’s classy . . .

[45] Posted by James Manley on 8-1-2009 at 05:11 PM · [top]

Good bye conservative Episcopalians in MN!!!

Good thing it isn’t Maine.  Not that I see any reason it won’t be.

[46] Posted by Ed the Roman on 8-1-2009 at 05:54 PM · [top]

Rats. I worked on a comment for about an hour here, and previewed it extensively; then when I pressed submit, it disappeared.

My thesis: Clarity is a Biblical Principle. It is summed up in Revelation 22:10-11.

I don’t have time to try to re-create it now. Does anyone have a clue as to what happened?

[47] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 8-1-2009 at 06:13 PM · [top]

I believe something times out after 10 minutes - so when you’ve created a long thread over a long period of time you should copy and save it first, just in case, so you can paste it back into a new comment box if it goes away.

[48] Posted by renzinthewoods on 8-1-2009 at 07:48 PM · [top]

Going Home,
Electing Perry is no worse (although her election and consent would end the debate about moritoria).
I was claiming that the idea of rooting for the election of someone in order to further the conservative cause is wrong.

[49] Posted by ursus on 8-1-2009 at 07:51 PM · [top]

Br_er Rabbit, as it was explained to me many years ago, similar to renzinthewoods’ suggestion:

Jesus saves.  You should too.

[50] Posted by hanks on 8-1-2009 at 07:52 PM · [top]

As a “cradle Episcopalian” that grew up in the cathedral in MN, I am amazed that anyone here is amazed at this recent news.  Since at least the 70’s it has been apparent to anyone willing to see what was important to those in leadership positions.  Ever since I visited home and saw the “new liturgies” at St. Mark’s it was crystal clear where they are headed.  (I have my own guess.)  I thought it was somewhat amusing that during their recent “celebration” the safe was broken into and they were robbed.  I am of course in no way suggesting that any of the “participants” in the service were involved.  I’m sure that would be some type of profiling…

[51] Posted by pcnelson on 8-1-2009 at 08:06 PM · [top]

Thanks for your insights, pcnelson.  I don’t think anyone here is amazed at the news.

[52] Posted by James Manley on 8-1-2009 at 08:18 PM · [top]

Sorry, no deep insight here.  Just sadness, mixed with a good dose of biterness at what they have done.  I do realize, of course, that I need to work on that.

[53] Posted by pcnelson on 8-1-2009 at 08:27 PM · [top]

I hear you, pcnelson.

[54] Posted by James Manley on 8-1-2009 at 08:41 PM · [top]

She’s being very cautions here and *almost* passing off as orthodox but inclusivist.

The claim that Muslims and Jews have access to God without CONSCIOUSLY coming through Christ is consistent with the inclusivist idea of God saving people by the Cross without their knowing it (lots of good Christian folk believe this).

The difference between this and a “weak inclusivist” (where I would probably wind up) is that while I hold out a mysterious possibility of salvation for those outside of the Church, I cannot in good faith recommend people follow these paths.  There is a big difference in calling the world to Christ, hoping God may also be merciful to those the message doesn’t reach and saying, “I’m ok, you’re ok.  We have different but equal vehicles to God.”

[55] Posted by Via Mead (Rob Kirby) on 8-1-2009 at 08:41 PM · [top]

oops wrong thread.  I thought I had the PB sermonette window up.  Will copy over there.

[56] Posted by Via Mead (Rob Kirby) on 8-1-2009 at 08:42 PM · [top]

I have always been taught that once one is exposed to the Gospels, and read them, they are responsible for life for what is in them in a salvific sense.

If never exposed, then not responsible. 

That too firm?  Made perfect sense to me.

KTF!...mrb

[57] Posted by Mike Bertaut on 8-1-2009 at 08:51 PM · [top]

Sarah (#42)

And lookie—the search committee asked a question that simply assumed that there would be only raving revisionists in the final list.

I assume that you are referring to #12d:
“Is there a time in which we are done with the [Anglican] communion”

And the reason why this question presupposes that the cantidate isn’t orthodox, is that it precludes the possibility that there would be a time when the Communion would be done with DMN and TEC.

Very interesting, this.

[58] Posted by J Eppinga on 8-1-2009 at 09:06 PM · [top]

I agree that continued clarity in this situation after GenCon needs to occur.  For that reason, I do hope that Rev. Perry wins election to Bishop.

[59] Posted by Summersnow on 8-1-2009 at 09:37 PM · [top]

How Body Piercing Can Enhance Your Congregation

Euuwww!  OK, now my ick factor has kicked in! sick  wink

[60] Posted by Milton on 8-1-2009 at 09:49 PM · [top]

Oh please “Proud Liberal.”  I live in Minnesota and was a diocesan delegate for 5 years.  I heard the nonsense about Jesus only being one of the ways to God, the Buddhist prayer bowls bonging at diocesan conventions, a naked woman “Jesus” on a cross, icons of an Indian woman with a Christ mandelora holding a fertility statue.  I know of five distinct cases where Jelinek didn’t let parishes consider candidates from seminaries that weren’t liberal enough.  The diocesan apparatus has discriminated recklessly and systematically against conservatives and those whom they even suspect as having “non-prophetic” leanings.  It is a liberal echo chamber that brooks no opposition.  Spare me the over-dramatized indignation.  Jelinek got the hard-left social-activist, make it up as you go along theological diocese he wants and it runs like the Chinese politburo.  Sell your story to someone who hasn’t seen the apparatchiks in action.

[61] Posted by Bill2 on 8-1-2009 at 10:00 PM · [top]

It seems that these three candidates are certainly not in this for the money. Has anybody addressed the issue of just how a bishop could be paid in this diocese?

[62] Posted by 7Light on 8-1-2009 at 10:01 PM · [top]

#14 Proud Liberal, you unwittingly display the core issue that has rotted TEC from within.  GLBT are but the sound-bite presenting symptom.  It’s that you think that you, fallen, unredeemed and still proudly sunk in sin “liberal” that you (singular and plural in DioMN) are able to do this in your own goodness and power:

We will rejoice that we can now focus on healing the brokenness in this world

You cannot heal it!  You need healing first!  The ONLY one who can and does “heal the brokenness in the world” is Jesus Christ the Lord, the only-begotten Son of God and the Son of Man and the promised Son of David, and only Saviour and the only name under heaven and earth by which we must be saved, as individuals, and that by His blood shed for OUR brokenness and sin, accepted and proven by the Father by His bodily resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven!!! (and yes, I meant that whole paragraph to be in bold!)

Tremble to realize that you have put yourself in the place of the only innocent and unbroken man ever to walk the earth and in the place of the ONLY one of whom the Father spoke, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.  Listen to Him.”  Tremble, fall on your face in holy fear of the LORD God, who did NOT call anyone who lives in defiance of His inerrant word, the whole of Scripture that cannot be broken.  Cry out for mercy and for His blood to wash away all your sins and for the Holy Spirit to fill you and indwell you and transform into the image and spirit of Jesus day by day, from the heart outwards.  To your utter surprise, you would find yourself side by side with us if you do so, and we will welcome you with open arms and hearts as a brother or sister!

[63] Posted by Milton on 8-1-2009 at 10:08 PM · [top]

#61 Bill2,, I have experienced the same things at convention and have been a victim of jelineks wrath and his attempt to get rid of me. He started on his journey in running the diocese down right after coming to MN. In fact we had a big todo when he got rid of his staff who didn’t want to toe his line and they paid the staff off and had them sign a confidentiality paper, while jelinek was required to go for counseling. Which didn’t to a bit of good. I will be fighting against all of these candidates as they are all ultra liberals. As far as Budde she was a delegate at GC09 so we know what she believes. Unfortunately jelinek has stacked the deck by bringing in only those who follow the liberal path to replace the conservatives who retired or left.
Art+

[64] Posted by art+ on 8-1-2009 at 10:24 PM · [top]

On not losing lengthy comments - paste isn’t necessary but selecting and copying the comment in the text window is.  It also helps to always click Preview first before you click Submit.  That reconnects you with the server after a timeout and sends the text to the preview window, resetting the timeout and preventing your comment from being lost.

[65] Posted by Milton on 8-1-2009 at 10:25 PM · [top]

#62, look at the diocesan website under finance and you will see the figures for the new bishop’s pay.

[66] Posted by art+ on 8-1-2009 at 10:27 PM · [top]

To make it easier here is a link to the data on the bishop’s planned salary. http://tinyurl.com/no5kb2

[67] Posted by art+ on 8-1-2009 at 10:50 PM · [top]

Hi Milton. I did that but it didn’t save me.
I remember now, back in the rough-and-ready days of StandFirm and Titus being careful to always copy before submit. I either forgot about that, or assumed that ‘we’ had grown out of it.

How about it? Is not Clarity a biblical principal?
Matthew 13, Revelation 22, Daniel 12, etc?
One cautionary note: Clarity in later Scripture became to be more and more associated with the end time situation. “Behold, I am coming soon!”

[68] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 8-2-2009 at 12:28 AM · [top]

Proudliberal - Your Presiding Bishop is a HERETIC!  Just face it. Speaking the truth isn’t hate speech.  We don’t hate TEC, we pity it.  Your leaders are dragging down the Church that we loved and changing it into something unrecognisable. We care, what happens to TEC; we care what happens to the people in the pews.  But we recognise that TEC can’t be saved (short of a miracle) until it finally tears itself apart.  We just want that day to hurry up, so that the rebuilding can commense.

[69] Posted by Donal Clair on 8-2-2009 at 02:28 AM · [top]

What wonderful news. And, in time for the upcoming Synod back in England. If they needed any further evidence of the contempt TEO has for them, and all Christians, here it is. Now it will be so easy to vote to be in full communion with ACNA.

And, it doesn’t matter if the cohabiting lesbian doesn’t win. The fact she was nominated is enough.

Delicious.

[70] Posted by teddy mak on 8-2-2009 at 04:59 AM · [top]

Reading this nonsense about DioMN does, somewhat, explain how Franken got elected to the US Senate.  I kinda have wondered about that,

[71] Posted by Old Soldier on 8-2-2009 at 06:30 AM · [top]

It’s merely time for Stand Firm to mount an investigation of all 3 candidates.

They also have an Inclusive Language Eucharist 8am.

I’m not quite clear who “they” is, but this is probably the best tactical approach. It was Forrester’s “tinkering” with the Book of Common Prayer that did him in during the consent period. And it is a clear violation of the “discipline” (i.e., Constitution & Canons) of TEC.

As a secondary tactic, look into the theology found in sermons. talks, articles, etc. That apparently will still carry some weight with some moderates.

And should the lesbian be elected: There are those who will consent to the lesbian because she is a lesbian and it will kill the moratorium. There are others who will consent to the lesbian because she was the diocese’s choice. Those who will withhold consent because she is a lesbian and it would formally and undeniably end the “moritorium”, sealing the schism from the Anglican Communion. But that group won’t need to be persuaded.

But do the first two tactics for all nominees.

[72] Posted by Ken Peck on 8-2-2009 at 08:24 AM · [top]

All I know is that The Rev. Brian Prior better turn very gay very fast if he wants to have a snowball’s chance of winning this.  That’s called “being prophetic” these days.

Personally, I support whichever candidate makes the most Anglican provinces understand what we all know regarding TEC. That is why along with Integrity and Christopher Johnson I support Bonnie in her quest to bring her special brew of Chicago-style Spongified heresy to Minnesota.  May she continue Bishop Jelinik’s fine work of shrinking the diocese at a respectable rate.

That, and I wagered 50 bucks that the next Bishop elected would be a lesbian.

DoW

[73] Posted by DietofWorms on 8-2-2009 at 08:58 AM · [top]

LOL…..ROTFLOL…....Laughing so much my side hurts….
I can’t wait to hear how the ABofC is going to smooth this one over when she gets elected and KJS & Bonnie Anderson writhe their spin on it to him. Yes, Canterbury is relevant why? TEc continues to move on her own further and further away from the Church Catholic. Bon Voyage, TEc.

[74] Posted by TLDillon on 8-2-2009 at 09:45 AM · [top]

Brian Prior, the one male candidate under consideration by the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota, was specifically asked about the “GBLT” community, and he stated, “My entire scripting was based on an assumption that everyone was not only welcomed, but also encouraged to be full members of the community,” so I am not sure that choosing him would make much of a difference.

[75] Posted by Apocalypse on 8-2-2009 at 09:51 AM · [top]

DoW,
A pox on your evil gambling habit!
On the other hand, if we all swam the Tiber then we could hold a raffle, give half the money to charity, and everything would be all hunky-dory.
Signed by:
That Wascally Wabbit,
Who recently lost a high-stakes (one cup of coffee) wager with the blogger formerly known as MouseStalker.

[76] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 8-2-2009 at 09:58 AM · [top]

The President of the House of Deputies has an honorary degree. Maybe her deputy can get deputized as an honorary lesbian? Would that push him over the top. After all, many men believe that they are lesbians trapped in men’s bodies.

wink

[77] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 8-2-2009 at 10:06 AM · [top]

Rabbit, I agree I need to repent of my gambling habit - but I only bet on Episcopal elections, and Genpo cost me 50 bucks, and I figured I needed one more bet to cover my loss.

I have been baptized and my voice is sacred (sort of).

DoW

[78] Posted by DietofWorms on 8-2-2009 at 10:09 AM · [top]

I only bet on Episcopal elections

Oh! Well, that makes it perfectly hunky=dory!

heh heh

[79] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 8-2-2009 at 10:28 AM · [top]

Methinks you must be under theological ice,
The land of Hubert Humphrey doesn’t seem quite so nice;
The progressives all think they’ll guide you to what’s best,
Or simply “thumb their big noses” at all of the rest.

Diocese of Minnesota!—have you gone astray?
From Jesus Christ as The Life, Truth, and Way!?
Diocese of California, where Jelinek was from,
To nominate Bonnie Perry?! Even they weren’t so dumb!

No matter Bonnie P.’s with a lesbian priest,
Frozen north Episcopalians could not care in the least;
Look at the bright (?) side, Susan Harlow’s so fun,
“BS” are so “partnered” (?) and bargain-priced—two for one!

Insensitivity’s appalling from those “punchdrunk” with power,
Will your bread become apostate?  Will your wine become sour?
Will you heed no prophet’s call in this critical hour,
To societal whims, not Christ, will you cower?

Do you all really don’t care?  Is your empathy so lacking?
Do you not really need God, with TEC’s dominant backing?
Will you follow Jefferts-Schori, as she keeps on her quacking?
Will your orthodox backbone, you send away, packing?

Our once noble grand church has simply sealed its decline,
Music of grandeur is now “inclusivity’s” whine.
TEC got what it wanted, an “LBGT exclusive,”
Replaced all of Scripture, then made God so elusive.

So let’s all become gay, and join our LBGT,
Then look down on others, like Bonnie perched in her tree!
Jesus Christ and His message?!—nowhere to be found,
TEC disappears to oblivion of the theologically unsound!

P.S.

Minnesotans! Please don’t do this horrible thing,
You may think it’s “cool,” and the heavens will sing;
But God is not happy with what you might do,
Hell’s full of good folks, run afoul, just like you!

God will guide you, but will you listen and follow?
Or sell out to “hip ways,” so shallow and hollow?
My prayers will be with you, to not from God’s grace, Fall,
God knows what is best, if you will heed His call!

[80] Posted by frdemetrius on 8-2-2009 at 10:41 AM · [top]

frdemetrius: Great poem, loved it.

[81] Posted by Donal Clair on 8-2-2009 at 01:13 PM · [top]

Whoa. This article states that in addition to the lesbian for Minnesota, LA has nominated two homosexuals for suffragan bishops:

http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=4315&MediaType=1&Category=26

[82] Posted by robroy on 8-2-2009 at 04:46 PM · [top]

Here is the LA times article (no pics of guys in underwear in this link): http://tinyurl.com/mc6prh

[83] Posted by robroy on 8-2-2009 at 04:48 PM · [top]

robroy (#83),

Good catch, rob.  Your vigilance and alertness to new developments often amazes me.

Well, that makes for quite a dramatic weekend, doesn’t it?  MN nominates one lesbian for bishop, and LA nominates both a gay man and a lesbian among its six nominees for the two suffragan posts vacant there in Southern Cal. 

Two Hispanics among the nominees in LA too. How balanced and inclusive of them!

But it doesn’t appear that there’s a single theological conservative among the nine nominees in the two dioceses.  Shocking, isn’t it?  I’m stunned.  I just can’t believe it. 

David Handy+

[84] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 8-2-2009 at 05:36 PM · [top]

It looks as if I was right after all. Post #5. However, I anticipated 1 not 2.

[85] Posted by martin5 on 8-2-2009 at 08:46 PM · [top]

You all have to understand that in Minnesota, if you aren’t Scandinavian-Lutheran you might as well not exist.

Episcopalians in this part of the country have always had something of a penis-envy toward the Lutherans. 

Particularly in a city like the Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul), the only way an Episcopalian can get ANY “street cred” is by being more liberal than the Lutheran mainstream.

In light of this, the actions of the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota are utterly predictable.  Unfortunately for the Episcopagans in Minnesota….it still isn’t going to encourage a Lutheran to switch churches.

Last one out, don’t forget to blow out the sanctuary candle.

[86] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 8-2-2009 at 08:49 PM · [top]

Thank you to mrb (#38) and Proud Liberal (#40) for the honesty and compassion in your communication with each other.  I hope to see more of it on these boards…

[87] Posted by Pegg76 on 8-3-2009 at 10:19 AM · [top]

I think Rev Perry’s sermons etc. will be within the realm of Christianity.

How can that be, if/when she teaches the goodness and beauty of same-sex fornication?

[88] Posted by Dr. Priscilla Turner on 8-3-2009 at 05:00 PM · [top]

Proud Liberal:

I would have to agree with those who advocate the election of the partnered, lesbian woman to the Episcopalian See of Minnesota.  This would have two very salutary consequences:

(1) It would help orthodox Christians remaining within the Episcopalian ecclesial community (who aren’t remaining specifically as a prophetic remnant, a la some of our brothers and sisters here at SF) to wake up to the depth and magnitude of the theological and moral heterodoxy and heresy under which the same has been subsumed; and

(2) It would help orthodox Christians throughout the Anglican Communion truly understand that the leadership, lay and ordained, of the Episcopalian ecclesial community stands over and against the Christian Faith once delivered to the apostles and revealed through Scripture and Tradition.

With that said, I fail to understand why you would be unwilling to make common cause with orthodox Christians, both within and without the Episcopalian ecclesial community, who sought to advance what you see as an equally-salutary goal: electing the partnered, lesbian woman to the Episcopalian See of Minnesota.

* * *

Jeffersonian:

I will continue to pray that God would lead the leadership and the vast majority of the laity of the Episcopalian ecclesial community to repentance and an embrace of the transformative Gospel of Jesus Christ. Truly, if such were to occur, we could only declare it to be a miracle of Almighty God (particularly in light of the vast majorities supporting the revisionist agenda that we saw ably demonstrated at GC09).

While I agree with you there, I cannot agree wtih you that we should pray against the nomination, election, and “consecration” of the partnered, lesbian woman to the Episcopalian See of Minnesota. I would be strongly concerned that a continued “fig leaf,” such as the interpretation of GC09 that “the moratorium is still in place” would continue to hamper the salutary goals that discussed with Proud Libera, supra.

* * *

Renzinthewoods:

As a “liberal/progressive member of TEC (TEO?),” shouldn’t you be sated with a partnered, lesbian woman on a prima facie level since she already is both a “partnered” and “lesbian” woman?

With her, you’ve got the Episcopalian trifecta:

(1) Pro gay marriage;

(2) Pro GBLT clericalism and episcopacy; and

(3) Pro women’s ordination (and thus, likely in favor of inclusive language).

What’s left to learn through a study of her theological writings?

* * *

RedHatRob:

Nicely put.

PS: Are you a cardinal? I mean, “red hat,” and all…

* * *

Br_er Rabbit:

Did you swim the Tiber (I may have missed it— I haven’t been as active on SF since I dove into RCIA last September and got (to use the lovely Eastern term) chrismated at Easter by the Rt. Rev. (English honorifics forever!) David Choby, Bishop of Nashville)?

[89] Posted by Diezba on 8-3-2009 at 07:04 PM · [top]

Uh, no, Diezba. I was trying to be humorous about gambling, which is awkward for me. My father was a compulsive gambler who, when he lost his paycheck on Friday night would come home and beat up his wife to get her paycheck so that he could go try to win it back.

And no, I’m still in the Convergence Movement (CEEC) whose goal is to converge the three streams of Christianity: Liturgical, Evangilical, and Charismatic.

[90] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 8-3-2009 at 07:34 PM · [top]

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