[Bumped] Diocese of Georgia Selling Bonds For Honey Creek Camp Debt

There is no income to repay the bonds. They are betting on growth which will not occur. It will take $200,000 per year plus interest to repay these bonds. This money does not exist.

Pb, your comment is extraordinarily divisive, mean-spirited, and hateful.

Can you not pipe a more hopeful tune, for the sake of unity?

Why must you be so negative, so pessimistic, so, again . . . divisive?

Sorry. I know this diocese well and I do not see how the bonds can be repaid. I truly wish it were otherwise. I will try to be less divisive. I still will not buy any of their bonds.

What I’ve heard is that if the bonds aren’t purchased, the diocese would default on a loan for which Honey Creek was collateral, sometime later this year. Thus, losing everything.

My contacts in that diocese have told me that they are being told that their investment would be safe, is that (if necessary) the property could be sold at a later time to pay off the bonds.

The diocese is fertile mission territory for ACNA because of the credible threat that it will actively pursue the revisionist path.

Whatta maroon.  Here in the Enlightened Diocese of Southern Ohio, we encourage our executive director of the conference grounds to go around and ask if the local farmers want to rent portions of the property for advanced agricultural initiatives (e.g., “Green agriculture”).  We did have to make a few adjustments, because the last director foolishly thought her job was to do her job. 

Very soon we will be raking in the sheaves, believe you me. 

http://elderoyster.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/a-clump-of-fully-digested-horse-food-by-any-other-name/

You know EO, your article about Southern Ohio raises some good points that could be applied here.I mean brand the name - Honey Creek. I see beekeepers and raw honey. Or perhaps a bar and “dance” club where candidates for seminary can come reflect upon “the call”. Maybe even a retreat for the alphabet soup crowd. Surely they could more than raise the dough with these ideas, right? I mean, that’s what in their DNA. Why not act upon it?

I looks like DGA is losing its most significant asset. This is truly sad.

It looks lovely.

It is very sad.  My kids have many happy memories from Honey Creek.  Up I95 the local Boy Scout Council sold their camp and did very well and moved the camp inland to a more centralized location for the coucil.  Too bad Bishop Louttit didn’t think to do something similar when coastal real estate was white hot.  Oh well.

They would have blown the money on lawyers anyway.

ty1028, it is my understanding that a proposal was made to Bishop Louttit in 2006-2007 time frame for the purchase of Honey Creek. The representative for a group that wished to purchase the camp told me the proposal made to Bishop Louttit included purchasing the property outright, purchasing at a lower price and helping to relocate to more central area, or to use the Diocese of South Carolina example for the St Christopher Camp and Conference Center.  The Diocese of South Carolina sold half of Seabrook Island to a deveopler but kept the better half of the island for the camp and conference center and used the money to make it a first class operation.
I was informed the offer was rejected but in fairness no one could have forseen what would happen to the real estate market.  Also there were many new housing developments in close proximity to Honey Creek at that time as well as the start of a new mission at the camp chapel. 
I suppose hindsight is 20/20

The Dio of GA has a familiar pattern. Its 2002 through 2009 experience was rather mild with Members down 9.2 percent, ASA down 15.1 percent, and inflation adjusted Plate & Pledge down 5.5 percent. (I ranked them at 23 of 95 considered.) For Size and Money, there were 40 of 71 churches with ASA of 66 or less in 2009 and 41 percent with Plate & Pledge of $150K or more. Not bad. But the future looks more bleak with Infant Baptisms down 23.8 percent and Marriages down 34.4 percent. Not good for selling 10 year bonds.  Statmann

Marriages may be going up if the good bishop has his way, Of course, infant baptisms will continue to fall. The leadership is out of touch with the folks in the pew and they are proud of it. The future does not look good but no one seems to care.

Why, if they publicized the place for fabulous, glamorous, but *deeply spiritual* Honey Creek Same-sex Weddings and Honeymoons, they would raise plenty of cash and be out of debt in no time at all.  Bishop Benhase could dress up in resplendent robes and do the honors, make it a package deal with cake and flowers, even British hats for the ladies and a tiara for the ‘bride’.
After the Royal Wedding, everything Anglican is like, really in!  Bishop Robinson and Bishop Glasspool might be delighted to come and do a few of these weddings as well.

Remember too, that any monies raised by DioGA will be used in its continued persecution of Christ Church Anglican in Savannah. Asking for dollars in the name of Honey Creek is just a cover for the Diocese’s support of TEC’s egregious lawsuit.

Sophy—great point.

Check this out…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vH6ldh1lJQ&feature=share

Oh my, Anglican Presbyter!

Maybe they should sing a song about “saving Honey Creek” . . . by giving up spending all the millions on the lawsuit to legally steal the Christ Church Savannah building away from its congregation.

#16 That is a nice video - looks like the axe falls in August which is new information.  As Sarah says, it is a pity that they have spent the money on lawyers which should have gone to ensure its survival, although that is not the fault of the new bishop.

We just see how the Episcopal Church has wrecked itself under the reign of the PB and her fellow activists - all the signs are that the Druid with his bishop appointment activities this last year is trying to send the CofE the same way.  Prayers for everybody.

That is a lovely camp.  The Bement Camp & Conference Center in W Mass was not as nice, but still attractive - but in my nearly 20 years in that diocese, there was year after year of deferred maintenance (the only repairs were the ones that were just enough to pass inspection) and declining attendance.  The kids who attended summer camp loved it, and it was a pleasant spot for retreats, Cursillo, etc - but on the whole it gradually faded away.  It last held summer events in 2007 (maybe ‘08) and was officially closed later that year.

The same is happening all over the Episcopal Church.  Some of that is simply a change in taste of the population; for a variety of reasons, summer camps of all sorts are falling out of favor - but a lot of it is the loss of membership in ECUSA and a program that is increasingly harder to distinguish from a secular camp.

Honey Creek is just the latest in a long series, and it will not be the last.

While I certainly disagree with the property disputes and lawsuits, my DioGA contacts say that cash is flowing down from 815 and that the DioGA lawyers are working pro bono. The carpetbaggers Mary Kostel and David Booth Beers were both at the recent Supreme Court hearing, and Ms. Kostel presented one of the arguments. The diocesan chancellor, who is also an ordained priest, presented the other TEC argument.

I also hear that kids don’t have a particular problem with the dilapidated, mildewed facility, its millions of bugs, and the hot and humid South Georgia summers. Apparently, the chapel is of modernistic design, and is also in a state of gross disrepair. One doubts that homosexual (or for that matter, heterosexual) couples would find it an attractive place for SSBs or honeymoons, with Jekyll Island, St. Simons Island, Sea Island, and Hilton Head so near.

As far as I know, the diocese does not have a wedding venue approaching the splendor of the Abbey. There’s no cathedral, and the Bishop’s ordination was done in a convention center. The diocese could not afford the vestments used at the Royal Wedding.

One unverified rumor is that if the diocese prevails in the Christ Church battle, they will move diocesan offices to Christ Church, designating it as the diocesan cathedral, and selling off the current office property. That would make some sense, because a DioGA Christ Church presumably wouldn’t have enough people (ummm…“pledge units”) to be a financially stable parish. On the other hand, having a cathedral church might further weaken other local parishes and missions.

The bond sale will be a huge test of the diocesan leadership, and will determine the financial course of the diocese in the next several years.

Rebuilding Honey Creek from the ground up, and doing it well - in the style of nearby resorts - would make it a wonderful place for retreats and conferences of all sorts. But I don’t know anyone who thinks that will happen.

All that said, my friends remind me that the diocese (presently) has no openly homosexual clergy, and there are no (present) reports of SSBs. Disintegrity does have a presence there. There are rumors of open communion, liturgical laxity, and documented sporadic reports of heretical preaching. So, I keep them in my prayers.

#16, words completely fail me.

@#20 There is no doubt but that if DIOGA wins they will sell the diocesan hq and move to the parish house on Abercorn.  I also think more than one parish will be closed in an attempt to funnel enough pledging units to Johnson Square.  As far as a cathedral that will be fun to watch as there is no shortage of ego in the Savannah convocation.
As far as no SSB or gay clergy, give Benhause credit for grasping the nature of the powder keg he is sitting upon.  If DIOGA wins in court you can count on hubris to light that fuse and effectively end DIOGA as we have known it because as we say down here, “that dog won’t hunt.”

One does have to wonder if the new Title IV canon revisions coming into effect July 1 won’t be used as a “motivational tool” to help folks see the tremendous benefits of supporting an endeavour such as this.  Those clergy and parishes that don’t buy into this program could be viewed as not supporting the mission and ministry of the Dio of GA, and thus brought up on charges of abandonment.  Of course, the canons have been used to persecute people for crazier reasons.

ty1028,

Even if they win the lawsuit, they can not sell the Diocesan Headquarters.  The property is not owned by DioGA only the building.  It is an interesting oxymoron.  The land is owned by another entity and DioGA is allowed a long term lease on the land.  So they would not benefit from the sale of any property regarding the Diocesan Headquarters.

There are many problems with Honey Creek that threaten it’s future.  One is that the tidal creek for which the Camp is named has caused serious erosion that has threatened one building on the came and may well threaten the Chapel and swimming pool in the near future.  The conferance senter is located in one of the furthest corners of the Diocese making it multiple hour trip from Augusta ( one of the larger population centers in the Diocese).  The facilities can not accomodate some of the larger parishes in the Diocese.  The last problem is that there are some die hard folks that think that Honey Creek is the jewel of the Diocese and must be maintained at all costs.  I feel the Camp is all but doomed $200,000.00 will not pay for soil stabilization, structure repair etc.  Maybe some body else with more knowledge could furter enlighten about the soil erosion problem.

sorry I am in rush, instead of came it should be camp, and center instead of senter..sorry about my typos!

And the videos continue

http://youtu.be/KIKXIanSMAM

Gives a whole new meaning to bond"age”, doesn’t it, Bish?  And GC 2012 and SSBs are SURE to drive the market up and up and up!  Court prophets always predict to suit the Queen Bishop.

Darn, and here I just spent my last dime on those City of Detroit munies.

They had better keep up the interest payments.  By 2018, TEC will need the camp for GC79.  ‘Cause I don’t figure there will be near as many Piskies to pay for stuff by then, like expensive hotels and iPads and airfare and cab rides for delegates.  Just have everybody bring a sleeping bag, have franks and beans for dinner, and sing Kumbaya.

Can anyone do this? 

I don’t mean buying the bonds, but issuing them to anyone who will take them. I would like a piece of the action

So how much money did he raise?

Lovely facility…except for the conastant drone of fans & air conditioners drowning out the drone of a bizillion mosquitoes!  Best fresh caught seafood I have ever eaten!  Cursillo 1986, Lectio Devina workshop 1987.  Good memories of wonderful spiritual growth weekends.

ALL IS WELL!