March 24, 2017

May 22, 2012

The Episcopal Left is Upset with the Roman Catholics

I am beginning to wonder if lack of logic is a pre-requisite for leadership in the Episcopal church.

It seems some Episcopalians are all atwitter because the Roman Catholic Church is acting to remove priests WHO HAVE LEFT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH from their clerical rolls.  The following is a quote from a post where Opinionated Catholic commented on a revisionist’s blog post.  The part in parentheses () is written by Opinionated Catholic. 

So instead of using this on Roman clergy who have sexually abused their parishioners, they use it clergy who committed the “grave scandal” of being married—even though the Roman Catholic church will re-ordain married former Episcopal clergy who join their church. ( That was a low and unfair blow. This is being used against Clergy that abused. Further THEY LEFT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. It is just not that they are now married.It should also recalled that by removing them from Clerical to the Lay State it’s removes their Canon Law obligation to be celibate and thus be married. There are certain RIGHTS and OBLIGATIONS to being in the Clerical versus Lay State. For instance once in the Lay State they don’t have a right ot be buried in Catholic Clerical Garb.  Again what is the big deal here. The Church is not saying that the they somehow have taken the impact of their Holy Orders away ( to do a valid Eucharist for instance ).

I notice one of our own made a very astute comment that bears repeating:

These are the same people who supported the deposition of Bishop Duncan of the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh when his diocese voted to leave the Episcopal church.


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Let me see, that would make the score

TEC 502 (or something like that) and counting (in the last 10 years)


I don’t see what Naughton and his crowd are worried about.  The “Lead” is almost insurmountable.

[1] Posted by tjmcmahon on 5-22-2012 at 06:55 AM · [top]

I feel a bit like Jim Mora.  LOGIC?!  LOGIC?!

To the Episcopal Left (almost a redundancy) the world is broken into two broad categories:  Stuff they like and stuff they don’t like.  It’s ALL based on emotion.  It rarely has anything to do with logic, canons or laws

They like sex, they don’t like celibacy.  Anyone that opposes their likes and dislikes most be removed or destroyed because they are on the side of the angels and the “others” must be crushed into submission, because they’re enlightened and YOU"RE NOT.  Welcome to leftist tyranny folks.

[2] Posted by Bill2 on 5-22-2012 at 07:00 AM · [top]

What’s truly humorous is one of the resident TEC libs saying this about the RCs: “The RC church is showing every symptom of an institution living in fear—attacking their own people, women (the nuns), girl scouts and now clergy who don’t care what they do. Death throes.”

Tee hee.

Talk about projection!

[3] Posted by Sarah on 5-22-2012 at 08:24 AM · [top]

I am one of the 502, or whatever the number is, but I am still on all the TEO mailing lists, and I wouldn’t be surprised if I am still carried as a member, along with the members of my church .

desert padre

[4] Posted by desertpadre on 5-22-2012 at 10:39 AM · [top]

As a Roman Catholic, I formally apologise for any distress, emotional suffering, or psychological damage that this decision may have caused any Episcopalians of a sensitive disposition.

I’m sorry.  I’m so very, very sorry.

How dare one of our dioceses decide in such a rush that nineteen years later, a man who left to join a different denomination, become a member of the clergy in that denomination, marry and raise a family in that denomination is probably going to continue to remain in that denomination and is pretty much not likely to decide to leave and come back as a Roman Catholic priest.

How dare we rush to judgement like that?  How do we know what may be in his mind - or the minds of the other two - in the next five, ten or twenty years?  Maybe this is just a phase they’re going through!

I was going to say I wonder what would be the case if I were an Episcopalian clergywoman who decided that not alone was I happily married to a lovely man, I was going to marry my lovely boyfriend that I’ve been having an affair with for the past five years (all consensual and above board, an agreed open marriage with full knowledge of my spouse) and that wonderful new bloke I met six weeks ago and have been having the whirlwind romance with ever since, in a moving and beautiful double ceremony.  Would there be any discipline involved?  Any case that I was not living up to (or into) my ordination vows?

Then I decided that heck, they’d probably write me a liturgy and offer me a bishopric

[5] Posted by Martha on 5-22-2012 at 10:40 AM · [top]

There’s an old saying “If you are seeing it, you are doing it”.  Pot calling the kettle black…well except the Catholics aren’t off base here…

[6] Posted by B. Hunter on 5-22-2012 at 11:18 AM · [top]

You don’t have to have the memory of an elephant to recall, as I do, the outrage among these same people about 4 or 5 years ago that the criminal homosexual priests convicted of raping boys had not yet been defrocked, even several years after going to jail.  “They’re still priests in good standing!!” thundered these moral arbiters.  So what happened?  That immobile, ossified Vatican bureaucracy amended the procedure for defrocking.  It used to take years - probably a relic of a time before people changed denominations so readily, and certainly without any provision for a stealthy invasion of criminal perverts.  Now there’s a more “nimble” (to use a favourite term of the Madwoman of Second Avenue) response to circumstances.  And now the cry goes up that these outrageous bigots are unfairly persecuting people who have no logical connection to them anymore.  Oh, and probably “disrespecting” Anglicans too.

‘How dare they use the same procedures on us that they use on those dirty sex offenders?’ is their new excuse for outrage.  They don’t seem to realize that the laicizing procedure is a neutral one.  Just as you can have your U.S. passport taken away either because you commit a crime or because you decide to become a citizen of another country - there’s no moral comment being made at all.  You just no longer fit the criteria.

[7] Posted by Dr. Mabuse on 5-22-2012 at 11:21 AM · [top]

‘How dare they use the same procedures on us that they use on those dirty sex offenders?’

One must, of course, realize that TEC does not use such procedures on its own sex offenders.  Actually, you can apparently get promoted to PB after accepting the orders of people that the RCC has used this procedure on when they are sex offenders.

And there is absolutely nothing on this earth that more offends most TEC liberals (and no small number of conservatives) than that the Catholics do not recognize their orders or invite them to Holy Communion.

[8] Posted by tjmcmahon on 5-22-2012 at 11:40 AM · [top]

This is becoming a pandemic among TEccies.  Chris Johnson has been posting links to some Episcopal “priest”/consultant named Tom Erich whose blogging has been so hysterical and wild-eyed that you expect that any moment he will declare he’s covered in venomous, right-wing spiders.  The lack of any connection to reality is painfully obvious, as it the total paranoia.

815 and its paid lackeys see the writing on the wall, and they’re lashing out in every direction.  It’s pathetic, it’s sad, it’s tragic..and I’m enjoying every second of it.

[9] Posted by Jeffersonian on 5-22-2012 at 02:28 PM · [top]

“priest”/consultant named Tom Erich whose blogging has been so hysterical and wild-eyed that you expect that any moment he will declare he’s covered in venomous, right-wing spiders.

I thought we were saving the venomous, right-wing spiders for GC.  I’m out of the loop again.

[10] Posted by tjmcmahon on 5-22-2012 at 03:35 PM · [top]

The vast, Right-Wing, Anglican Conspiracy has an unlimited supply of said spiders.

[11] Posted by Jeffersonian on 5-22-2012 at 04:00 PM · [top]

They are oh so right. The RCs should have a big nasty way to remove the sex offenders, but have a pastoral and fluffy (meaning difficult and long?) way to remove those clergy that have left the Church (which, BTW, for RCs is the canonical crime of schism, which isn’t exactly no big deal), shaken the dust from their feet, and aren’t looking back. So here’s the question - should the fluffy process be easier to respect the dignity of the leaving cleric, or harder? That’s not really clear.

Mind you, if a RC diocese keeps these guys on the rolls, he remains technically incardinated in that RC diocese. The RC church can still be sued for any future misdeeds of any sort since according to their tradition they are still quasi-responsible for him. I don’t see why what the RC church does or does not do in this circumstance matters at all. It is just absurd.

[12] Posted by advocate on 5-23-2012 at 02:18 PM · [top]

Meanwhile the Pbette lacks any specific canon to transfer clergy to another part of the Anglican Communion so she removes them from the ministry altogether.

[13] Posted by Nikolaus on 5-28-2012 at 09:26 PM · [top]

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